Southern Pacific Lines

Coast Line Division 

“The Route of the Octopus”

 
 

General Information



Specific Interurban Cars

Coach 72-IC   Interurban Coach Non-AC   (“subs”)

  1. SP's "Classification (of) Conventional Passenger Cars Pacific Lines" dated July 17, 1956 called them "72 Ft. Steel Intrbn. Coach Non-AC"


  1. SP's class designations 72-IC-1 through -3 are single level arch roof Intercity cars, often mistakenly referred to as "Harrimans" (sic) by many unknowing railfans and modelers. The seventy five Suburban Coaches (aka "Subs") were specifically constructed for use in SF Peninsula commute service between San Jose and San Francisco.

  2. Rob Sarberenyi


  1. "subs works" -- short for suburban car

  2. Jeff Cauthen


  1. The former Espee commute equipment, both the bi-level cars and single level Suburban coaches (in classes 72-IC-1, 72-IC-2, and 72-IC-3), were replaced in 1985 by corrugated bi-level cars Cal Train purchased new from Nippon-Sharyo. These are significantly different enough from the cars Espee once operated, which were summarily retired and sold or scrapped.

Suburban commute cars vs."Harriman Commutes"

  1. In addition to the 72-IC-1, -2, and -3 class 72' Suburban coaches, there were also some 60' Harriman era coaches also used in commute service.


  1. Harriman coaches were 60 feet long. Subs are 72 feet. Subs are NOT Harriman coaches, having been purchased long after the Harriman era.

  2. Tony Thompson

SP Subs in action , May 15, 2011

  1.                                                                            http://www.altamontpress.com/discussion/read.php?1,58557,58557#msg-58557

  2. Drew Jacksich


Coach 72-IC-1        Interurban Coach

    #2085-2144


  1. built Jan-Feb 1924 by Pullman-Standard

    They are single level arch roof Intercity cars with no A/C.

  1. Espee's Peninsula Suburban commute coaches in the 72-IC-1, -2, and -3 classes are 72' 0" over end sills, and 80' 8 7/8" coupled length. They also feature 25 windows between the end doors.

  2. Rob Sarberenyi

Lettering & Numbering

  1. Unlike similar looking Harriman-era arch roof cars, the "Subs" do not feature letterboards extending above the end doors, along with several other visual differences. That is a BIG spotting feature of the 72-IC-class "Subs".

  2. Rob Sarberenyi

Reference

                                                                               Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 1: Coaches & Chair Cars, pg. 146-153

Drawing

                                                                               Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 1: Coaches & Chair Cars, pg. 147

Modeling Coach 72-IC-1  Interurban Coach

Coach Yard

  1. Coach Yard 0919.x -- very, very good models of 72-IC-1/2. About $500 each if you can find one.

  2. Tim O'Connor

MDC

  1. When attempting to model Espee Suburban coaches from MDC or other non-brass sources is check the number of windows, 25 per side as in this Bob Dengler photo                    http://www.pbase.com/image/35842976

Precision Scale

Soho

Lettering & Numbering

  1. Make sure the letterboard doesn't continue over the end doors. Those are two BIG spotting features of the 72-IC-class "Subs".

  2. Rob Sarberenyi

Decals

Thinfilm

  1. Thinfilm #159 would work on the repainted 72-IC-1 thru -3 class Suburban commute cars. 


  1. Thinfilm produce several excellent sets worth your consideration, in particular the Daylight-painted steam locomotives; heavyweight passenger cars in the Dark Green scheme with Dulux Gold lettering; passenger cars in Two-Tone Gray colors; and passenger equipment painted in the Solid Gray scheme such as Economy Baggage Cars, also coaches in Peninsula commute service including 72-IC-1/-2/-3 class Suburban coaches ("Subs").


Coach 72-IC-2        Interurban Coach

  1. SP #2145-2154


  3. built Oct 1924 by Pullman-Standard

   They are single level arch roof Intercity cars with no A/C.

  1. Espee's Peninsula Suburban commute coaches in the 72-IC-1, -2, and -3 classes are 72' 0" over end sills, and 80' 8 7/8" coupled length. They also feature 25 windows between the end doors.

  2. Rob Sarberenyi

Lettering & Numbering

  1. The letterboard doesn't continue over the end doors.

  2. Rob Sarberenyi

Reference

                                                                               Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 1: Coaches & Chair Cars, pg. 149

Drawing

                                                                               Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 1: Coaches & Chair Cars, pg. 147

Modeling Coach 72-IC-2  Interurban Coach

Coach Yard

  1. Coach Yard 0919.x -- very, very good models of 72-IC-1/2. About $500 each if you can find one.

  2. Tim O'Connor

MDC

  1. When attempting to model Espee Suburban coaches from MDC or other non-brass sources is check the number of windows, 25 per side as in this Bob Dengler photo                    http://www.pbase.com/image/35842976

Precision Scale

Soho

Lettering & Numbering

  1. Make sure the letterboard doesn't continue over the end doors. Those are two BIG spotting features of the 72-IC-class "Subs".

  2. Rob Sarberenyi

Decals

Thinfilm

  1. Thinfilm #159 would work on the repainted 72-IC-1 thru -3 class Suburban commute cars. 


  1. Thinfilm produce several excellent sets worth your consideration, in particular the Daylight-painted steam locomotives; heavyweight passenger cars in the Dark Green scheme with Dulux Gold lettering; passenger cars in Two-Tone Gray colors; and passenger equipment painted in the Solid Gray scheme such as Economy Baggage Cars, also coaches in Peninsula commute service including 72-IC-1/-2/-3 class Suburban coaches ("Subs").


Coach 72-IC-3        Interurban Coach

  1. CP #2155-2159


  3. built Dec 1927 by Standard Steel Car

   They are single level arch roof Intercity cars with no A/C.

  1. Espee's Peninsula Suburban commute coaches in the 72-IC-1, -2, and -3 classes are 72' 0" over end sills, and 80' 8 7/8" coupled length. They also feature 25 windows between the end doors.

  2. Rob Sarberenyi


Lettering & Numbering

  1. The letterboard doesn't continue over the end doors.

  2. Rob Sarberenyi

Reference

                                                                               Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 1: Coaches & Chair Cars, pg. 149-150

Drawing

                                                                               Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 1: Coaches & Chair Cars, pg. 147

Modeling Coach 72-IC-3  Interurban Coach

MDC

  1. When attempting to model Espee Suburban coaches from MDC or other non-brass sources is check the number of windows, 25 per side as in this Bob Dengler photo                    http://www.pbase.com/image/35842976


  1. The commercial plastic model of a gallery car is only close for the third order, which was never two-tone gray, being delivered in "solid" gray. There are three distinct sub-sets of the "3700 class PS double decker" cars. The first two differ substantially from the third. Did SP 6462 last into the era of the third order of gallery cars?

  2. Ken


  1. They are the large windows, but they are the correct length and more correct trucks than MDCs.

  2. Leo Pesce


  4. The Model Power HO scale round roof car is 59' 10" over end sills, and 67' 8 3/4" coupled length.

  5. Rob Sarberenyi

Precision Scale

Soho

Lettering & Numbering

  1. Make sure the letterboard doesn't continue over the end doors. Those are two BIG spotting features of the 72-IC-class "Subs".

  2. Rob Sarberenyi

Decals

Thinfilm

  1. Thinfilm #159 would work on the repainted 72-IC-1 thru -3 class Suburban commute cars. 


  1. Thinfilm produce several excellent sets worth your consideration, in particular the Daylight-painted steam locomotives; heavyweight passenger cars in the Dark Green scheme with Dulux Gold lettering; passenger cars in Two-Tone Gray colors; and passenger equipment painted in the Solid Gray scheme such as Economy Baggage Cars, also coaches in Peninsula commute service including 72-IC-1/-2/-3 class Suburban coaches ("Subs").




Specific Bi-Level Gallery Cars

Coach 85-MLC   SP Gallery Bi-level Commute coaches

  1. All the SP gallery cars were built new for SP, not bought secondhand.

  2. MLC = Multi-Level Cars.

  3. The Gallery Cars had A/C.


85-MLC-1

  1. SP #3700-3709

  2. 10 cars built 1955 by Pullman Standard

Paint

  1. Daylight red and orange paint was considered for the first cars, SP 3700-3709. The first two orders (1955 and 1957) arrived in two-tone gray paint; all were eventually repainted into solid gray by the early 1970s.

Window Tinting

  1. The approximate "color" of the window tinting was a "greenish" tint". Some of the windows replaced along the way with Lexan (polycarbonate) glazing. These tended to cloud-up rather quickly as they were subjected to cleaning brushes etc.

Lettering & Numbering

  1. The heavyweight passenger cars in the Dark Green scheme with Dulux Gold lettering; passenger cars in Two-Tone Gray colors; and passenger equipment painted in the Solid Gray scheme such as Economy Baggage Cars, also coaches in Peninsula commute service including the 85-MLC-1/-2/-3 class bi-level Gallery Cars.

Reference

  1.                                                             The Official Pullman-Standard Library, Volume 6, Southern Pacific Postwar Cars


                                                               Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 1: Coaches & Chair Cars, pg. 427-435

Drawing

                                                               Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 1: Coaches & Chair Cars, pg. 428

  1. Not SP exactly, Plans for Bi-level Commute Coaches   Railroad Model Craftsman May 1969         

  2. C & NW ones were close to the SP Gallery Cars.

Modeling 85-MLC-1 Gallery Cars

The Train Shop

  1. In brass, The Train Shop (Santa Clara, CA) imported examples in the 1980s for all three classes of SP gallery cars. Charlie Givens was instrumental in their development, which means they're definitely accurate!

  2. Rob Sarberenyi

Walther's SP Gallery Cars Bi-Level Commute Coaches Car

  1. These new Walther's SP Commute Gallery Cars will represent the correct window configurations (i.e. NEW car sides and window glass) to match one of the two orders of the Pullman-Standard (blt. 1955) and American Car & Foundry (blt. 1957) built gallery cars for the SP. This is NOT just a new paint scheme on a Walther's gallery car per previous runs for other roads. 


932-5970 Pullman-Standard SP Style Bi-level Commuter Car - Assembled --Undecorated 

932-5971 Pullman-Standard SP Style Bi-level Commuter Car - Assembled --Southern Pacific (TT Gray) 

932-5972 Pullman-Standard SP Style Bi-level Commuter Car - Assembled --Southern Pacific (gray) 

Old Walther's SP Gallery Cars Bi-Level Commute Coaches Car

  1. The Walther's cars don’t have enough windows to be the same as SPs cars. Depends on class: either 6 or 4 1/2 (ignoring the restroom window on the first car), model - rows of 4 each side of the doors SP- rows of 6 or 5 1/2. You will have to add some windows. Install two sets of Three Brothers SP sides on the Walther's bodies. Not too difficult, you only had to bevel the ends of the sides and rebuild the body under the door openings. Walther's site mentions cars for other RRs. http://walthers.com/exec/page/press/2002/commuter

Paint

Window Tinting

  1. Most of the tinting on passenger cars was "greenish". If you look at color photos of passenger equipment with green tinted windows, especially ones that have been in service for a number of years, you will notice a lot of variation to the tint between windows. Probably due to fading in sunlight and/or a new piece of tinted glazing used to replace an original piece that may have broken. This can be modeled in two different ways.

  2. 1.   Use Tamiya brand clear green acrylic paint thinned at least 50% with Tamiya Thinner. Then airbrush on the backside (interior) of your glazing. As usual, do some testing first. The Tamiya paints are carried by Walther's.


  1. 2.   At the grocery store, spend about $3.50 on a bottle of Future brand acrylic floor polish, and a couple of bucks on some food coloring. Pour some of the Future in a jar, (1 oz., or so) and add green food coloring to "taste". Airbrush the green tinted Future at about 25 psi on the interior side of the glazing. The food coloring mixes with the Future with no problems.


  3. It can also be used to mount AMB's laser cut, press fit, acrylic diesel windows in place. Take a toothpick, or piece of wire (.010 +/-) dip it in the Future, then touch the drop on the end of the wire to a corner of the glazing from inside the shell. Future is just about as thin/liquid as water, so capillary action will pull the Future around the glazing where it contacts the shell. After it dries, it is virtually invisible.


  5. Future may also be used to remove the cloudy residue generated by CA glues on clear glazing surfaces.


  7. As far as the masking of the curved windows goes, AMB sells laser cut, acrylic gallery car sides (C&NW prototype) with pre-masked windows for years. While not exactly the same as the SP cars (variations of A/C vents above the side doors) they are modeled after the same general plan. The masking is done by the laser, curved corners and all.

Lettering & Numbering

Decals

Thinfilm

  1. Thinfilm #159 is for all gray cars with no black lettering outline. This would work on the bi-level commute coaches used in Peninsula service.


  1. Thinfilm produce several excellent sets worth your consideration, in particular the Daylight-painted steam locomotives; heavyweight passenger cars in the Dark Green scheme with Dulux Gold lettering; passenger cars in Two-Tone Gray colors; and passenger equipment painted in the Solid Gray scheme such as Economy Baggage Cars, also coaches in Peninsula commute service including the 85-MLC-1/-2/-3 class bi-level Gallery Cars.


85-MLC-2

  1. SP #3710-3730 - 21 cars built 1957 by American Car & Foundry (constructed to same specs as P-S built #3700-3709)

Paint

  1. The 1957 order arrived in two-tone gray paint; all were eventually repainted into solid gray by the early 1970s.

Window Tinting

  1. The approximate "color" of the window tinting was a "greenish" tint". Some of the windows replaced along the way with Lexan (polycarbonate) glazing. These tended to cloud-up rather quickly as they were subjected to cleaning brushes etc.

Lettering & Numbering

  1. The heavyweight passenger cars in the Dark Green scheme with Dulux Gold lettering; passenger cars in Two-Tone Gray colors; and passenger equipment painted in the Solid Gray scheme such as Economy Baggage Cars, also coaches in Peninsula commute service including the 85-MLC-1/-2/-3 class bi-level Gallery Cars.

Reference

  1.                                                             The Official Pullman-Standard Library, Volume 6, Southern Pacific Postwar Cars


                                                               Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 1: Coaches & Chair Cars, pg. 427-435

Drawing

                                                               Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 1: Coaches & Chair Cars, pg. 428

  1. Not SP exactly, Plans for Bi-level Commute Coaches   Railroad Model Craftsman May 1969         

  2. C & NW ones were close to the SP Gallery Cars.

Modeling 85-MLC-2 Gallery Cars

The Car Works

  1. The early SP bi-levels were imported in brass by The Car Works, built by Woosung Brass. They are nice models.

  2. Tim O'Connor

The Train Shop

  1. In brass, The Train Shop (Santa Clara, CA) imported examples in the 1980s for all three classes of SP gallery cars. Charlie Givens was instrumental in their development, which means they're definitely accurate!

  2. Rob Sarberenyi

Walther's SP Gallery Cars Bi-Level Commute Coaches Car

  1. These new Walther's SP Commute Gallery Cars will represent the correct window configurations (i.e. NEW car sides and window glass) to match one of the two orders of the Pullman-Standard (blt. 1955) and American Car & Foundry (blt. 1957) built gallery cars for the SP. This is NOT just a new paint scheme on a Walther's gallery car per previous runs for other roads. 


5970 Pullman-Standard SP Style Bi-level Commuter Car - Assembled --Undecorated 

5971 Pullman-Standard SP Style Bi-level Commuter Car - Assembled --Southern Pacific (TT Gray) 

5972 Pullman-Standard SP Style Bi-level Commuter Car - Assembled --Southern Pacific (gray) 

Old Walther's SP Gallery Cars Bi-Level Commute Coaches Car

  1. The Walther's cars don’t have enough windows to be the same as SPs cars. Depends on class: either 6 or 4 1/2 (ignoring the restroom window on the first car), model - rows of 4 each side of the doors SP- rows of 6 or 5 1/2. You will have to add some windows. Install two sets of Three Brothers SP sides on the Walther's bodies. Not too difficult, you only had to bevel the ends of the sides and rebuild the body under the door openings. Walther's site mentions cars for other RRs. http://walthers.com/exec/page/press/2002/commuter

Paint

Window Tinting

  1. Most of the tinting on passenger cars was "greenish". If you look at color photos of passenger equipment with green tinted windows, especially ones that have been in service for a number of years, you will notice a lot of variation to the tint between windows. Probably due to fading in sunlight and/or a new piece of tinted glazing used to replace an original piece that may have broken. This can be modeled in two different ways.

  2. 1.   Use Tamiya brand clear green acrylic paint thinned at least 50% with Tamiya Thinner. Then airbrush on the backside (interior) of your glazing. As usual, do some testing first. The Tamiya paints are carried by Walther's.


  1. 2.   At the grocery store, spend about $3.50 on a bottle of Future brand acrylic floor polish, and a couple of bucks on some food coloring. Pour some of the Future in a jar, (1 oz., or so) and add green food coloring to "taste". Airbrush the green tinted Future at about 25 psi on the interior side of the glazing. The food coloring mixes with the Future with no problems.


  3. It can also be used to mount AMB's laser cut, press fit, acrylic diesel windows in place. Take a toothpick, or piece of wire (.010 +/-) dip it in the Future, then touch the drop on the end of the wire to a corner of the glazing from inside the shell. Future is just about as thin/liquid as water, so capillary action will pull the Future around the glazing where it contacts the shell. After it dries, it is virtually invisible.


  5. Future may also be used to remove the cloudy residue generated by CA glues on clear glazing surfaces.


  7. As far as the masking of the curved windows goes, AMB sells laser cut, acrylic gallery car sides (C&NW prototype) with pre-masked windows for years. While not exactly the same as the SP cars (variations of A/C vents above the side doors) they are modeled after the same general plan. The masking is done by the laser, curved corners and all.

Lettering & Numbering

Decals

Thinfilm

  1. Thinfilm #159 is for all gray cars with no black lettering outline. This would work on the bi-level commute coaches used in Peninsula service.


  1. Thinfilm produce several excellent sets worth your consideration, in particular the Daylight-painted steam locomotives; heavyweight passenger cars in the Dark Green scheme with Dulux Gold lettering; passenger cars in Two-Tone Gray colors; and passenger equipment painted in the Solid Gray scheme such as Economy Baggage Cars, also coaches in Peninsula commute service including the 85-MLC-1/-2/-3 class bi-level Gallery Cars.


85-MLC-3

  1. SP #3731-3745


  3. 15 cars built 1968 by Pullman-Standard


  1. The 1957-built AC&F cars are virtually identical to the 1955-built P-S bi-level gallery cars. Smooth-side gallery cars from Chicago were originally purchased new by the Chicago & Northwestern and the Rock Island. These cars were never operated by Espee, however, Espee purchased coaches that were visually and mechanically similar.

Paint

  1. SP's 3rd (and last) order of bi-level gallery commute cars built by Pullman-Standard for the commute fleet were delivered in sold dark gray.

Window Tinting

  1. The approximate "color" of the window tinting was a "greenish" tint". Some of the windows replaced along the way with Lexan (polycarbonate) glazing. These tended to cloud-up rather quickly as they were subjected to cleaning brushes etc.

Lettering & Numbering

  1. The heavyweight passenger cars in the Dark Green scheme with Dulux Gold lettering; passenger cars in Two-Tone Gray colors; and passenger equipment painted in the Solid Gray scheme such as Economy Baggage Cars, also coaches in Peninsula commute service including the 85-MLC-1/-2/-3 class bi-level Gallery Cars.

Reference

  1.                                                             The Official Pullman-Standard Library, Volume 6, Southern Pacific Postwar Cars


                                                               Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 1: Coaches & Chair Cars, pg. 430, 432

Drawing

                                                               Southern Pacific Passenger Cars, Vol 1: Coaches & Chair Cars, pg. 432

  1. Not SP exactly, Plans for Bi-level Commute Coaches   Railroad Model Craftsman May 1969         

  2. C & NW ones were close to the SP Gallery Cars.

Modeling 85-MLC-3 Gallery Cars

Brass Car Sides

  1. Brass Car Sides offers an HO scale kit representing the last series of bi-level gallery cars Espee purchased from Pullman-Standard in 1968: fifteen cars in series #3731-3745.


  3. They offer an HO scale model of the 1968 P-S order of cars that includes a tinted window material to replicate it.

Holgate-Reynolds

Kato

  1. The Katos were foobies for SP.

  2. Tim O'Connor

3 Brothers


The Car Works

  1. The early SP bi-levels were imported in brass by The Car Works, built by Woosung Brass. They are nice models.

  2. Tim O'Connor

The Train Shop

  1. In brass, The Train Shop (Santa Clara, CA) imported examples in the 1980s for all three classes of SP gallery cars. Charlie Givens was instrumental in their development, which means they're definitely accurate!

  2. Rob Sarberenyi

Paint

Window Tinting

  1. Most of the tinting on passenger cars was "greenish". If you look at color photos of passenger equipment with green tinted windows, especially ones that have been in service for a number of years, you will notice a lot of variation to the tint between windows. Probably due to fading in sunlight and/or a new piece of tinted glazing used to replace an original piece that may have broken. This can be modeled in two different ways.

  2. 1.   Use Tamiya brand clear green acrylic paint thinned at least 50% with Tamiya Thinner. Then airbrush on the backside (interior) of your glazing. As usual, do some testing first. The Tamiya paints are carried by Walther's.


  1. 2.   At the grocery store, spend about $3.50 on a bottle of Future brand acrylic floor polish, and a couple of bucks on some food coloring. Pour some of the Future in a jar, (1 oz., or so) and add green food coloring to "taste". Airbrush the green tinted Future at about 25 psi on the interior side of the glazing. The food coloring mixes with the Future with no problems.


  3. It can also be used to mount AMB's laser cut, press fit, acrylic diesel windows in place. Take a toothpick, or piece of wire (.010 +/-) dip it in the Future, then touch the drop on the end of the wire to a corner of the glazing from inside the shell. Future is just about as thin/liquid as water, so capillary action will pull the Future around the glazing where it contacts the shell. After it dries, it is virtually invisible.


  5. Future may also be used to remove the cloudy residue generated by CA glues on clear glazing surfaces.


  7. As far as the masking of the curved windows goes, AMB sells laser cut, acrylic gallery car sides (C&NW prototype) with pre-masked windows for years. While not exactly the same as the SP cars (variations of A/C vents above the side doors) they are modeled after the same general plan. The masking is done by the laser, curved corners and all.

Lettering & Numbering

Decals

Thinfilm

  1. Thinfilm #159 is for all gray cars with no black lettering outline. This would work on the bi-level commute coaches used in Peninsula service.


  1. Thinfilm produce several excellent sets worth your consideration, in particular the Daylight-painted steam locomotives; heavyweight passenger cars in the Dark Green scheme with Dulux Gold lettering; passenger cars in Two-Tone Gray colors; and passenger equipment painted in the Solid Gray scheme such as Economy Baggage Cars, also coaches in Peninsula commute service including the 85-MLC-1/-2/-3 class bi-level Gallery Cars.


 
Southern Pacific Lines S.P. Interurban & Bi-Level Gallery Cars
General Info Specific Interurban Cars Coach 72-IC Coach Non-AC (“subs”) Bi-Level Gallery Cars Coach 85-MLC Commute coaches
Home../Modeling_the_SP_Coast_Line/Title_Page.html